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Pseudolonewolf`s Avatar Weekly Update Mon 7th Feb 2011 12:20am

Category: Weekly Updates

So, uh... Most of what I have to say this week is very much the same as usual. Nothing too exciting.

I've heard back from sponsors about Clarence's Big Chance and hope to finalise a deal next week, though that's not a promise. I'll need to make sure I can get a good offer before accepting anything.
I want that game to be behind me soon though... It's been ages since I've finished it.

I'll probably start the sponsorship for Alora Fane before it's actually done, so I can work on it while waiting for replies from interested parties. Hopefully to avoid this kind of thing.

I've not done a whole lot of work on that game in the last week... so I've unfortunately not got any screenshots to show off this time.
I've been trying to work on tilesets and other such graphical things... Anyone who thinks that simplistic pixel graphics are easy to do clearly doesn't understand the difficulty of trying to keep a consistent visual style while trying to make things look *just right*!

I spent much a big chunk of the week composing, actually. My girlfriend, Rating Orb M β Firequill, has been making her own game recently, which may be released fairly soon. She, like I, tried to do all the content herself, but was struggling with the music composing since she's not got the same experience as I have with that (she's much better at art than I am, though!), so I am helping her out by doing the 'soundtrack' or 'score' or whatever you'd call it.
It's fairly enjoyable and good practice, and I might release an album with the music once the game's been released.

I should probably aim to make a game page for Alora Fane: Regression next week, so I can update the Progress thing on the front page.
I'm not sure how I'd describe my current amount of progress... 20%? Something like that? More? Less?
I mean, I've got most of the mechanics done, or at least their basics, but none of the music or story and barely any of the graphics... So I've set up the framework but the game lacks content. Hmm.

I've also been focusing a lot on religion recently, as I tend to do... I go through phases, focusing on it a lot for a few days or weeks then largely ignoring it for a month or two, before coming back to it again.

Here are some related questions:
- How many of [these deities] do you believe in?
- By coincidence, is/are the deity or deities you believe in the same ones that you were taught to believe in since birth?
- Why do you not believe in the rest?

- Why do you think people don't worship or follow the deity or deities that you worship or follow?
- Do you think that they disrespect or willingly shun that deity or those deities, and deny it or them because they want to live selfish lives instead of being subservient?
- Do you refuse to make blood sacrifices to the Aztec Sun Deities because you disrespect or wish to shun them, or because you don't want to accept them into your life?


150 Commentson 38 roots

Dreamgawd`s Avatar
Rating Orb Dreamgawd 17 Aruba SanguineCholeric 259C 76F
7 years ago | (7)
I personally think people should be free to believe in whatever magical sky being or whatever other thing they want to believe in. I'm not going to lie, though: I'm sick of religious people forcing their beliefs on me. I'm not saying all religious people are like that, as I know several who are not like that, but I'm referring to the ones who do. Basically, I respect the fact that people want to think that there's some kind of magical sky king or something equally asinine and will not tell them to believe otherwise, though I will argue supporting my beliefs, but I WANT THOSE PEOPLE TO STAY OUT OF MY DAMN GOVERNMENT! My country was founded to be the opposite of a theocracy, so why can't they stop trying to turn it into one!? It's madness!
Nepene`s Avatar
Rating Orb Nepene 20 United Kingdom CholericPhlegmatic 29C 50F
7 years ago | (5)
Actually, the first amendment was made to prevent protestants from picking on catholics, and vice versa. Places like Maryland banned catholics from holding government office, and the first amendment's purpose was to prevent that. The idea that there's a wall of seperation between government and religion is a recent court invention, from the 1960s-70s (before then in was incredibly common to advocate religion with government, back to the founding of the country.), as embodied by the Lemon test, and that principle is sharply limited to preventing advocacy of religion in government. Because most people in america are religious, it would be an atheocracy if all religious people were banned from putting into action any laws based on their religious principles, or involving religion in government.

If you kept all people who believe differently out of your government, i.e. the 70% or so christians in the country, that would be a far, far worse violation of human rights than teaching creationism in high schools, and would be directly in conflict with the first amendment which was crafted so one group wouldn't ban another group from being in public office. Everyone, including creationists, should have the right to run for government office.

Besides, creationists have next to no power outside high schools. Universities almost universally teach evolution as does the scientific establishment, and creationists have no influence on them. The public may be ignorant but scientific testing of evolution can continue fairly unimpeded and the benefits of that scientific research can continue to benefit all. The general public will never care that much about accurate science.
Dreamgawd`s Avatar
Rating Orb Dreamgawd 17 Aruba SanguineCholeric 259C 76F
7 years ago | (2)
I didn't mean that Christians are supposed to stay out of the government. I meant that if they were to get into the government, they need to leave their religion out of it, because it's not fair to people with other religions to have that religion forced down their throats legally.

Also, you wanna go right now? How is creation more valid than evolution? Evolution may not be the right answer, but how is it illogical compared to the idea that a magical unicorn man made us out of dirt?

Do you think it's fair that in some schools, kids of non-Christian beliefs are forced to say the "Under God" portion of the pledge of allegiance? That portion wasn't even in the pledge until the 50's, when it was added by people who happened to be SEGREGATIONISTS.
2 Replies
Nepene`s Avatar
Rating Orb Nepene 20 United Kingdom CholericPhlegmatic 29C 50F
7 years ago | (1)
You're using the argument from inconsistent revelations. That because there are multiple gods through history, it is absurd to believe in a particular revelation.

It's not especially convincing to most. Theists regard most other faiths as foolish and anthropic statue (the statue bit is a big thing- they believe gods are in statues?) worshipping fools, and generally categorize all other religions as "I don't care". Polytheists believe that most gods are similar beings under different names, and would be quite happy to believe in the aztec gods, and like that aspect of your argument. Your argument is very pleasing to atheists and antireligious people who already believe in your point, and enjoy mocking religion.

And indeed, most of the posts here have followed that formats. Those who are polytheisty or pantheisticy have said that they think god is pantheisticy, many professing a belief in the aztec gods. Those who are theisty have said they regard polytheistic gods as beneath their notice. Those who are atheistic or antireligious have agreed with you and said how much they hate religion. No one is going to change their mind. You're mostly preaching the croud here.

As to the why- for most religions it comes down to contact with god, or reported contact with god. You pray to whoever, and you feel their presence or get some sort of material benefit. All the scientific arguments in the world can only make you a theist. Feeling something or seeing it with your own eyes iis much more convincing.

I was atheistic. For moral, ethical reasons I converted to mild christianity, as I recognised the destructive path the moral of my atheist peers was taking me on. That pushed me into being interested in the scientific side. I found the case for christianity convincing, the bible generally accurate, and the immoralities less immoral than I had been told. I was far more open then and had a religious experience that converted me fully, and since then I've been a christian.
Hubay`s Avatar
Rating Orb Hubay 21 United States MelancholicSanguine 48C 23F
7 years ago | (3)
I understand your frustration with religion to degree. But I think you fall into a bit of a trap when you disregard some of the dogmatic issues. You talk about how religion had historical or cultural context that can be grossly misrepresented by modern 'believers' to suit their own agenda. At the same time, you use these misrepresentations as proof of how messed up and false the religion is. These aren't problems with the religion, they're issues with people, followers who are being willfully ignorant because it's easier than facing the truth. A man who thinks about the Rapture and how all his rivals will writhe in pain on earth while he's happy in heaven experiences no less self-delusions and wish-fulfillment than someone who refuses to question the creation myth. Anyone who bothers to study the bible with any amount of objectivity and historical knowledge understands that the story of Revelations is just an allegory for Nero and Roman oppression.

Perhaps I'm not being quite clear here, since I seem to be agreeing with you. My point is, a lot of the "carrot-and-stick" instances in the bible aren't what you think they are. Promises of salvation, paradise, and threats of eternal suffering aren't supposed to be literal. They're coded words of encouragement directed at Christians — most of whom should have understood exactly what the code meant and not taken it at face value — that tell readers to bear with the trials of roman rule, for they will eventually be triumphant. Nowadays, people do use this as a carrot/stick technique to gather followers or rile them up, but it certainly isn't an issue with the original religion. It's a problem with basic human nature. The actual faith was intended to be quite progressive and un-institutionalized. History just didn't let that happen.
KK Twain`s Avatar
Rating Orb KK Twain 17 United States CholericPhlegmatic 18C 0F
7 years ago | (2)
Reply to Pseudowolf's earlier question: I use Internet Explorer 7. Also the reply button has never worked for me and I'm pretty sure javascript is working. (Just some extra information.) I hope that helps... (not that I'm expecting you to fix anything just because of me... just trying to help inform, is all.)

I suppose the bright side is that the reason I couldn't reply wasn't because I was too stupid to figure it out.
rs111`s Avatar
Rating Orb ! rs111 12 Saint Helena Phlegmatic 2171C 94F
7 years ago | (8)
He doesnt need to fix anything for you, you could simply download fire fox and/or chrome.
rs111`s Avatar
Rating Orb ! rs111 12 Saint Helena Phlegmatic 2171C 94F
7 years ago | (4)
What? Yellow ratings? I wasnt even trolling this time! WHAT DID I SAY??? D:
Supergnash`s Avatar
Rating Orb Supergnash 18 United Kingdom MelancholicPhlegmatic 354C 145F
7 years ago | (2)
I'm surprised at myself for not answering earlier and I know I'll be mad at myself for a short post compared to everyone else here, but what the hell...

I'm not going to answer exactly what you asked, I'm just going to give some vague answers.

I find religion very interesting. Here are my reason:

(Another like break with a short sentence)
Anyway, I believe that SOMETHING must have made our universe. The idea of Ex-Nihilo got me thinking but I can't quite place my views on it yet. You can't get something from nothing, e.g you can't create or destroy energy, you can only change it into different forms. Using this, I'll try and say something. You can't make something if nothing exists, it has to come from somewhere, but if there is something then some sort of higher being, not necessarily The Big M (Mbomombo the White Giant) , could manipulate that into something else. Therefore I believe in some kind of deity or higher being, deity or not (this kind of shows that I have views on E-N but I don't really feel one-sided).

As for that huge list, well I've not been indoctrinated as such, my family was best described as agnostic, but growing up I was taught that Christianity was the most likely religion to be true. Eventually I "gave in" as such and decided that Christianity was the way to just occurred to me that so many people couldn't be wrong about something so important to the way everyone lives there lives. And I mean everyone, there are probably only a handful of people who haven't been affected by religion at all. Weather they are like Pseudo and they want it gone or they like the idea of it. Anyway, recently however, I've been thinking a bit, these "autistic" thoughts have come into my head as some guy said here [LINK] It just seems that we don't understand the universe to make ANY kind of judgement on how it was made without getting some major thing wrong. When people first came up with Christianity, or Judaism, they didn't know much about anything. Only now do we understand enough to make an educated (and most likely quite accurate) guess on how the world was made. The thing is though is that it's just a guess. Science doesn't have all the answers; you can't get something from nothing; if our world is so imperfect why do we think there has been a higher level of life on it for several million years, even sentient life? There are so many question that we can't provide a completely true answer to. We can make a pretty good guess but other than that we don't have a clue. 1000 or so years ago, Religion was like science, it was describing what happened and making a good guess based on what they knew at the time. The only thing is, they didn't know much compared to what we now know. Also, a little fact, did you know that if Christianity hadn't been "invented" as such, then we would most likely be 1000 years more technologically advanced? The leaders of the dark ages seemingly decided that it was more important to come up with intriguing stories about how the universe worked and why it manages to work than it was to find out what happened and the factual evidence of why things happen. Maybe some people today are doing the opposite, focusing too much on the what something is rather than how it was created, how it came to be there.
So that was kind of related to this, lets see what my brain comes out with next...

I personally believe that people are free to believe what they want, but I also feel that if they are being ignorant of things, like they just assume they know how evolution works or think they know what the bible is saying without even reading it, then I will try and set them straight. I don't think of them as being unintelligent, that they are inferior because they are "wrong", I just feel that they made a mistake, that they should look over what they've said. However, you do get people who are adamant in there views and won't shift, even after being shown some cold hard facts. Those people just annoy me, they have usually been indoctrinated and have been told how to think, but people can still think for themselves. They should be able to look at a passage of the bible and say "Oh, I didn't know about this" or show them something from, uh a textbook and they can say "Oh, I thought evolution was just about this"", but they don't. They just come out with some crap and leave, making me feel slightly sorry for them as they obviously can't think for themselves. Or something. I think a lot of people simply don't want to believe in certain deities because they can't be bothered doing certain things that it requires them to do. Although as I said, a lot of people are ignorant of some of these rules. Anyway, it's easier for people to just sit back and say "God doesn't exist so he can't punish me for not worshipping him". I would really like to know if they get any of the nagging doubts that I and others have got, have they started to rethink what they originally thought. Then I could maybe get across to them easier. However, I don't think all people are like this, a lot of people (usually the smarter ones), don't believe that religion makes sense, it's something they could could do without. And religion DOESN'T make sense if you think about it. Most people know Christianity to be something like this (and by most people I don't mean "EVERYONE WHO IS ON THIS WEBSITE!!!", I mean most people in the developed countries, places with mixed people):
There was some great guy who made the Earth. He made humans and loved them so much that he kept giving them second chances when they messed up. His "son" came to Earth in the body of a human and did loads of miracles and what-have-you. Then all of a sudden, things stopped happening, the Earth started to fall into disrepair and the humans had numerous and pointless wars.
Is it just me or does that end bit not fit in? And it doesn't really make sense if you apply some advanced-ish science or some fairly simple logic to it. It doesn't FIT. It doesn't connect with what other religions say. I think I'll just say some "quotes" that best sum up what I've said. I say "quotes" and not quotes because they aren't exact, just off the top of my head.

Einstein? I think?:
Without Science, Religion is blind, without Religion, Science is lame.

Some book, think it was Brisingr, Christopher Paolini:
(You would have to read it for the exact quote to make sense so I'll simplify it)
You can ask any person if their religion is real, it doesn't matter if they are a priest or some tribe's shaman, they will all argue as strong.

Some guy in Brisingr, again simplified:
I won't believe in a god unless I have proof. If he were suddenly to reveal himself in a (reliable?) way then I would believe in him as much as you might.

Again Brisingr (it's a damn good book):
The best tool a man can have is logic.
"If you all use logic, won't you come to the same conclusions?"
We all have different logic, we see things differently.

Like I said, they weren't exact quotes, I might look up some philosophers who do some more interesting work into this (like Epicurus or Aquinas) but for now I just want to say this:
You know Sir Isaac Newton? The scientist man who discovered gravity? Well he was a Christian, he said that just the thumb proves the existence of a god or some kind of maker as it is too complex to have happened by chance, especially as each is unique. It may have been a big leap from the intricate design of the thumb to the existence of a designer, but it's good enough, it's also similar to what Paley said about watches, that they are so complex and have so many different parts that work together so well it's obvious they had a maker, and the universe is vastly more complex than a watch (again, not exact quotes).
Black Wolf`s Avatar
Rating Orb Black Wolf 18 Hungary PhlegmaticMelancholic 146C 3F
7 years ago | (2)
Nice... Actually, I have to tell my opinion in one things or two.
1. "You can't create energy, you can't create something out of nothing"... Of course, you, or me, or neither of us could... But if you want to understand God, I suppose, you should put natural laws aside. What do I mean? When God created the world ex nihil, it's literally ex nihil. It doesn't only refer to matter, but also energy, time, and furthermore, the laws of the natural world. As a consequence, he can override the natural laws - he was the one who created them! Also, for an omnipotent being I think it's quite an easy task to make an universe out of nothing. This was Voltaire's main problem as well, as far as I remember.
2. I believe that Christianity makes sense, it only has to be understood properly. I know, it's a bit difficult for every person. I'll try to give a short explanation in a nutshell.
- God created the world and humanity - but He did not want to create himself slaves. I think that's quite clear. So he gave us free will.
- The gift of free will could (and can) be used for both good and evil - and of course, humans (even from Adam and Eve) used it against God. They rebelled against him, insisted on living without his intervention in their lives (I've written it somewhere else, that like teenagers - "you can't tell me what to do, I want to live my own life, leave me alone"). So he allowed us to do so; cast them out of Eden and cursed the world (for the rebellion) - and that's why all those bad happen. We wanted to live our lives without Him; we got it. That's how far we could go without God.
- He, however seeing what this rebellion caused, wanted to find a way out while keeping free will... That was Jesus. He sent his own son, as the eternal and generic sacrifice for the sins of all people; but everyone has to accept this gift of free will... Otherwise it wouldn't be a gift.
Supergnash`s Avatar
Rating Orb Supergnash 18 United Kingdom MelancholicPhlegmatic 354C 145F
7 years ago | (1)
Thanks for the reply, I'll try and address your points in some way, don't blame me if I get some stuff wrong though.

1. I know you're supposed to say that God created everything from nothing, while it doesn't make full sense to me, it does seem the best explanation I've heard so far. It's the only explanation that fully accounts for Ex-Nihilo, which literally means "From Nothing" in Latin, as it describes a single entity that could have the omnipotence to change the laws of..everything and could potentially have created the big bang.

2. Christianity can make sense, it just doesn't account for everything. it doesn't explain so much that science has the potential to be the victor here. But I think it's understandable if you look at the general meaning rather than exactly what happened. The bible is basically telling us wrong from right, what we SHOULD do, not what we MUST do. Yes it does say we must do them if we don't want to go to hell, but like you say, we have a free will and don't have to do all these things, only that it's better if we do. And even if someone isn't Christian, they should still follow the moral code the bible teaches.
The bible also does explain a bit of why the Earth was made, which is something science can't do. But we can't be sure that any religion has predicted it accurately, there are so many that it seems most are likely to be wrong.
1 Reply
rs111`s Avatar
Rating Orb ! rs111 12 Saint Helena Phlegmatic 2171C 94F
7 years ago | (3)
Just a short note.
That quote from Einstein is false. Einstein did not follow any religion and was agnostic.
About Isaac Newton.... he was a deist... not a christian... I think? However, even if his quote is true, that doesnt mean his statement is true. He WAS a great scientist, however that does not mean that everything that comes from his mouth would have credibility.
Supergnash`s Avatar
Rating Orb Supergnash 18 United Kingdom MelancholicPhlegmatic 354C 145F
7 years ago | (2)
I never said Einstein was Christian, I found the quote anyway:
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."
This isn't saying that Einstein was Christian, it shows that he understood the importance of religion, which is a lot.
Isaac Newton was a theist, not a Christian, and he was a great scientists, so what he said has a higher chance of being true than if I came out with it, but as you say, it doesn't mean it is true. But it's still something to think about.
2 Replies
healer of light`s Avatar
Rating Orb healer of light 17 Belgium MelancholicSanguine 72C 78F
7 years ago | (2)

First of all there are a lot more reasons to not believe in a god, like my own personal reasons:
1)We have nothing, nothing at all, to prove that he exists (You may look at some wonders of nature and think that God created them, but that's a lie because they were created by the ocean,vulcanic activity,earthquakes,etc)
2)If there was a god, why would he allow all this suffering and evil in the world and not do anything about it? It may be fine to let humans try to solve their own problems but if there was a god he would know by now that humans never will be able to solve the mess they made (and why would he make the humans (or any animal for that matter) so evil in the first place)

now about your arguments:

- 1. They have yet to be taught about Him and what His wonderful plan is for their lives

I have been 'taught' about this god and his supposed wonderful plan and I think it's all a bunch of hogwash... and now you're actually thinking in the same way the spaniards,the french,the englishmen and all the other 'white' folks thought when they conquered America and Africa during the Kolonisation and we all know how that ended...

- 2. They are hard in their hearts and unwilling to learn anyhting contrary to their current state of existance

Another typical way of the way Christianity thinks... What you're saying doesn't make sense: some people are looking at the scientific facts and come to the realisation that there cannot be some sort of deity because we've look everywhere on Earth and we've also looked decently far in the Milky Way and we've found no such being (so where would they be hiding?) and being an atheist does not mean that we are 'hard' or are unwilling to learn anything contrary to our current state of existance, we just don't believe in your god.

- 3. They fear the Judgement. When every soul is judged according to their deeds and either alllowed entrance into heaven, or cast into the Lake of Fire, commonly known as Hell.

And how do you there is some sort of judgement in the Afterlife (if there is one) and how could the people who wrote the bible know this? Last time I checked, people didn't come back from the death to tell about all the things that happen when you're dead. And Where would these heaven and hell be if they existed? And what were they supposed to be when the bible was written? For all you know they could be one of the planets...

- 4. People have skewed misconceptions about the Church and it's followers/beliefs that result in a "bad taste" in one's mouth. They chooses not to believe becuase quote "I tried church and it just wasn't my thing"

Seriously? Those 'skewed misconceptions' doesn't change the fact that the Church isn't that innocent as it claims it is. I mean look at the Middle Ages
: Priests sometimes got richer than some of the seigneurs and they practically controled the lives of their people like the communists do/did. And the fact that a lot of priests rape children and young adults doesn't help either

- 5. People are, in a general sense, dumb. Hahahaha (just kidding...mostly)

Seriously? You do realise that you're insulting yourself right? Since you too are a human

To me (and probably to Pseudo too) you just sound like a typical christian who thinks that his religion is the true religion and thinks that all the nonbelievers and the ones who believe in different religions must be 'taught the right path' or must be killed
healer of light`s Avatar
Rating Orb healer of light 17 Belgium MelancholicSanguine 72C 78F
7 years ago | (1)
this was meant to Xenos, but I made a little mistake
Black Wolf`s Avatar
Rating Orb Black Wolf 18 Hungary PhlegmaticMelancholic 146C 3F
7 years ago | (6)
The typical...
"the ones who believe in different religions must be 'taught the right path' or must be killed "
Were you serious about that? "Must be killed"? Anyone who says this and claims himself to be a Christian is a filthy liar and nothing more (sorry for the wording). The Crusades were an example of human greed and manipulativeness; they had social and economic reasons, and religion was only a tool of powerful medieval people to gain the support of the crowds.
There's no "kill for the Christ" and such. Jesus taught us not to kill anyone. Anyone who kills (unless of self-defence or protecting others) does not follow the laws of Christianity. Most psychologists say that if everyone lived as Jesus said, an ideal society it would be. Doesn't sound anything like outdated or propagating killing to me... Same goes for your 'arguments' of English and Spaniards and all the same... IF they had been true Christians, they wouldn't've killed anybody and wouldn't've used Christianity as a tool of ideology (by twisting it) to conquer.

But if we're here, I could bring up excellent examples of the people who have done the most horrible things on the world - such as Hitler, Stalin, Mao Ce-Tung, Pol Pot and so forth - and they have one in common. They were all atheists. Yet I don't argue with them, as I'm aware of the fact that their deeds will not disprove atheism. But it's not needed anyway. Science has done it for us already.

1. There are miracles and such... Unless you can show me that a dog can regrow neurons without divine intervention... And that the world itself is an excellent proof for God's existence (the very fact that the world exists and not as a singularity points to a creator according to the second law of thermodynamics).
2. Why God allows suffering? Humanity messed it up. Humans got free will (God didn't want to create slaves for himself), so he gave us the possibility to choose. OF course what did we choose? We tried to close God out of our lives. We tried to live without Him. And here are the results. Humans were those, in the first place, who rejected God... Just like a teenager who asserts that he does what he wants and that no one dare to tell him what to do and that nobody should intervene to his life.

Where could be Heaven and Hell? They're places in which not matter takes place, but souls only... they're not in this material world. By the way, ultimately, according to the Bible, the etarnal life will take place here, on the Earth.

I say, you should forget the church as it was in the Middle Ages and it inherited too many aspects to nowadays from its former self as well. Personal faith is the important one.
Qazerowl`s Avatar
Rating Orb Qazerowl 15 United States MelancholicCholeric 272C 16F
7 years ago | (3)
Yes, just remember, anything wrong done by someone who doesn't believe in God doesn't count against us. No true atheist would do such a thing.
healer of light`s Avatar
Rating Orb healer of light 17 Belgium MelancholicSanguine 72C 78F
7 years ago | (0)
wow wow wow!!! i don't you understand this fully... This was my reaction to Xenos who gave those arguments and I gave my opinion for every argument he gave
so please check that before you start critizing me... (I already posted that I mistakenly posted that as a post when it should have been a reply, though not in that many words so I apologize for that)

and what I meant with the French,English,Spaniards,... is that they thought they had to teach the 'black animalistic people ' the way of God and this and that and in the proces they killed everyone who didn't obey or who didn't want to believe in Christianity. The reason I said this is because by that argument Xenos made ("the ones who believe in different religions must be 'taught the right path (where did the must be killed even come from?)) he was reasoning the same way they did.

And sorry Black Wolf, but being an atheist has nothing to do with doing horrible things on the world, there are a lot of people with a religion who do bad things

and for those furthermores...

1. I, personally, don't believe in miracles, because miracles only seem to happen when one most need them. I believe that a human does things in his life that can have such special results that it may be seen for a miracle (about your little dog thing... who knows what dogs eat these days or what kind of reaction different treatments have to them)
2. But why would your god, he who loves all his children and hates to see them suffer, let this go on and on? In the bible God is seen as a father figure and for as far as I know fathers don't allow their children to go on a rampage or live the life we all do right now

Ok I can understand how heaven and hell (if they exist) be in some other sort of dimension or world or something. But then you do the thing that disturbs me the most... you use the bible to back up an argument. The bible was written by MEN and how could these men, who never knew God or Jezus for that matter, know what God meant for us? It just doesn't make sense that some humans just happen to know what happens after you die and what kind of God there is and etc... And the bible contains stories that were passed down an oral (I don't know if this is the expression) from generation on generation and that changed a lot with each generation. For all you know these stories never happened and Jezus was just a popular person who tried free the jews from the romans
1 Reply
Mahdi`s Avatar
Rating Orb Mahdi 14 United States 41C 0F
7 years ago | (9)
Well, it is an interesting thing that you mention. All of the deities are either polytheistic, or monotheistic. Polytheistic deities do not make much sense to me because it only makes sense if there is only one. In the list of deities they worship the earthly phenomenon (which is wierd how you criticize it since you consider yourself a pantheist). But the fact of the matter is that these are all amazing things. In a sense they all deserve praise because they are magnificent. Now what about the one who made all of these magnificent things? If you do look at the whole universe, it is extremely organized. A big mass exploding and getting extremely lucky is one way to put it, but if that is so, where did that mass come from???? Our earth is the only planet in the entire universe that has life on it that astronomers have found. Now saying all of this, evolution also states that we "lucked out" and we became the most advanced animals. Okay, so this all takes an extreme amount of luck. The atheists may try as they might to convince themselves that there is no deity, but try as they might deep inside themselves they know that there is. I have talked to pseudo before, and he denied that this all just sorta "happened" meaning that he knew that there was not a higher power. The reason this list of deities is so long is because, as I have said before, we all have a need to worship something, and we all, by nature ponder. Saying all of this, if you have really talked to an atheist it isn't that they don't BELIEVE in deity, it is just that they want to prove to themselves that there is not a deity, and/or they did not find a religion that makes sense. Your question is in its own answer, we all have a need to worship. We all have a need to have humility, to praise something with power. Saying all of this, if we have a need to worship, and everyone thinks there is a god they just don't know how or what, then wouldn't he sort things out for you to understand? Also, the thing about natural disasters killing and harming "innocent people" is judged. The fact of the matter is that, you don't know the whole story behind what, why and how it happened to them. Judging something when you don't know the entire story is the most unfair thing you can possibly do. This is further explained in a message i sent you (if you didn't happen to ignore it). I will put down some points of the matter and try as you might, but you will find yourself in agreement with them.

1: Do not judge what you don't understand

2: everyone knows and feels there is a deity, but doesn't know how or what

3: Our universe and our earth is so organized, that this could not happen just by "extreme luck"

4: Atheists are trying to prove to themselves that there is no Deity.

This is all saying that we understand there is a deity, but the religions are stupid and wrong. I am a Muslim, and Islam is a monotheistic religion. The Quran has countless scientific verses. There is also a verse explaining all that I have explained above

"We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and INSIDE THEIR SELVES, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your Lord that He is a witness over all things?"

Imagine this, an older brother of a family gets a very complicated toy from a toy store, then hands it to his younger sibling. He tells him what it can do, what exactly it IS and the special features of it, without showing him exactly how to do it. He takes the manual, then says "I want you to discover it for yourself". After that the younger brother eventually discovers everything and says "whoa you were right". Saying all of this, we have not discovered much about science, save for the last couple of hundreds of years. Now that we do know, we can all say "whoa you were right".

I am sure that nobody disagrees with me so far, and if you do, it probably is not for the best of reasons. So..where is this supposed deity that told us about things, but did not explain it to us? Well, there is so much evidence, I don't even know where to start! Well, I will start with a few verses in the Quran that explains phenomena that we only recently have proven to be correct. Please note: translations do not translate the exact meaning of words, and you would understand that if you took more than one language, also, in a defense that the Quran doesn't contain any miracles, please do not quote hadith because it may not even be authentic and Mohamed was not a scientist. He was an illiterate who did not know much about the universe, and even if he did say it, it isn't real proof because he was only given the ayat (verses/signs), so if you want to use hadith to support your topic, again please don't.

I am going to give just a few of them here.


"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder?

As seen in this Ayah, it explains that everything was composed of a single mass, before exploding into everything we know today. This is known as the big bang theory. Also, it says that we will understand the big bang theory, and how magnificent all of the planets are in the galaxy. This is something that could never have been understood in that time period, the only person who would know.

Here is another ayah that predicts cloning, and the failures from it.


`And assuredly I will lead them astray and assuredly I will arouse in them vain desires, and assuredly I will incite them and they will cut the ears of cattle; and assuredly I will incite them and they will alter ALLAH's creation.' And whoever takes Satan for a friend instead of ALLAH, he certainly suffers a manifest loss.'

The reason people clone is for stem cell research, and to save time with cross breeding. This arouses their VAIN DESIRES. If they found a way to make cloning effective, it would get them stupidly rich, and famous. But it says here that it will never work....As people continue to clone, they are not going anywhere with it. so, where do these clone cells come from? where is the best type of cell to use for cloning? None other, than an ear cell. If you do not believe me go do the cloning research yourselves! Clones have about a 1.5% chance of success on average. It is an absolute failure, nothing is coming from it, it isn't going anywhere, it's never GOING to go anywhere. If you would like to delve further in this topic then you can access this [LINK]

Again, English translations are not 100% accurate because of the movement from one language to another. The Quran has no contradictions, and if you find some, you are probably reading the translation incorrectly. Also note that the Quran came during a time of war, and some verses no longer apply. If you would like more proof then here is a [LINK]

Well, that's it I guess! Have a nice day everyone.
Pseudolonewolf`s Avatar
Rating Orb A β Pseudolonewolf 23 United Kingdom MelancholicPhlegmatic 2257C 559F
7 years ago | (11)
I think you don't understand what it's like to think as a non-believer. Also, you didn't address my questions; instead you just went rambling on about your Holy Book. Do you disbelieve in the Aztec gods because you need to prove to yourself that they aren't real? Or because it's simply silly to believe that they exist?

Many atheists don't believe because they can't believe; it makes no sense. Often people like me take part in religious discussions and debates not because we need to prove to ourselves that there's no God, but to show people that they're essentially deluded, believing in something as sensible as Santa Claus, and we do this because religion is a driving force in many peoples' lives, leading to them to personally waste away their existence worshipping something that isn't there, or causing them to have an 'us and them' mentality which is detrimental to living in harmony. Religion affects the world around us, which is why those of us who don't believe it feel the need to say so.
Would you try and help a friend who was talking to furniture, or would you just leave him be? If he said that you just couldn't hear the furniture talking and as such it was you who were in the wrong, who would you think was mad: you or him?

"Do not judge what you don't understand", you say, hypocritically. You've criticised and dismissed evolution despite *clearly* not understanding it (whether or not you think you do; if you did, you'd accept it), and now you seem to be judging atheists based on a lack of understanding of how they think.

I do not know or feel that there's a deity. I don't see the point. I don't see a group of rocks and think that they were organised in the arrangement they're in by a thinking, planning intelligence; I think that natural processes, blind mechanical laws, led to their current state.
I think it's arrogant for tiny-minded humans to think that just because we as minds make things, that all things are made by minds. Just because A produces B doesn't mean that all B is produced by A.
It's more sensible to realise that minds come about via blind laws, an ordered universe, and order does not require a mind to produce it. In fact, minds tend to be chaotic oddities in a fundamentally ordered universe...

Have you heard of the Anthropic Principle? If we look around us, we see a barren, lifeless universe, with much of our own planet being dangerous to us. It's certainly not a universe designed with life in mind; rather, we're an unusual exception to what the universe is mostly like, here against all odds.
If however the conditions for us to exist at all were not met, then we wouldn't exactly be sitting around saying 'gee, too bad the universe isn't more ordered, so that we'd actually exist!'
If you use a random number machine that generates an integer between 1 and a billion, and it comes up with the number 4, then it had a one in a billion chance of happening. That's very, unrealistically unlikely. So did it not happen at all?
There could be many universes, potentially infinite, each one having different fundamental constants. Some wouldn't last beyond a flash of light. Others might develop some kind of matter, but it wouldn't be able to form life as we know it. We must necessarily be from one that is able to produce us, but there's no reason why it would have been designed with us in mind.
If it *is* made for just us, then why is the universe so *mind-bogglingly huge*, full of worlds and stars and galaxies we'll never, ever see? What was the point of your god making all that? Decoration?
It strongly suggests that we're just a speck in the big picture; the Earth isn't special. We're a grain of sand in a desert.
But of course, this makes people feel bad, so they prefer more self-aggrandising myths.

I disbelieve in deities because of the relative strength of arguments; arguments against God tend not to require mental gymnastics to make them fit with other arguments, and atheism is strongly correlated with intelligence and interest scientific proficiency, while religiosity is very prevalent in countries which lack even schools. It's clear to one outside religious bubbles that it's all myths and legends, self delusions, emotional stories to make people feel more important than they are all less afraid of death, invented back in the days when people didn't have the means to study the universe to understand it like we do now.
It's also obviously used by rulers to control the dim masses; use the good old 'carrot and stick' method, based around things infinitely beyond the peasants' ability to rebel against, and you ensure an obedient population.

Perhaps the idea of there being no deities is so alien to you since you've been raised - programmed - to think that one of them is real all your life.

"I am sure that nobody disagrees with me so far, and if you do, it probably is not for the best of reasons."
What arrogance.

You keep mentioning these Qur'an things. It seems that you're completely resistant to any arguments against them, pigheadedly presenting them again and again despite sound rebuttals. It's the strategy that all creationist types seem to use; repeat the same lie over and over and over again until everyone just gives up arguing with you.
Again I mention Nostradamus. He made several predictions, supposedly, but of course they were utterly useless at the time he wrote them because they were so horribly vague. But now, if people look back on them and try to match them with events that happened between the time they were written and the present day, people can link them to events such as World War 2, the destruction of the Twin Towers, etc, etc. It only fits if you're trying to *make* it fit.
I very much doubt you'd accept the same level of feeble, flimsy excuse for 'evidence' from someone of a different faith, or in regards to a secular matter.

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder?" speaks of the Big Bang in the same way that the Maori myth does, since that mentions that the Earth god and Sky goddess were linked together in a tight embrace, before being separated!!1 Or something like that. It means absolutely nothing. Anyone who'd describe the singularity as 'the time when the heavens and Earth were fused as one' would be laughably wrong. There was no 'Earth' back then, and what are 'Heavens'? The sky? The atmosphere? A vacuum? It's ridiculously vague.

Here's a page that covers the idea of the universe as held by people back in Biblical times: [LINK]
It's about the Bible, but scroll down and you'll see a diagram that shows how people understood the universe to be shaped. The 'Heavens' were a solid dome over the top of the flat earth. Thought of as such, it's easier to see how your god might speak of slicing the two asunder.
It also explains passages about the sun and moon following orbits, as I've mentioned before; both were thought to be little balls in the sky that entered and exited the dome of the heavens via little windows. They moved on paths, but not how science these days understands it, not at all.

Have a look at this page; read it thoroughly: [LINK]

Proof that the BIBLE is scientifically correct, right?!?
Would you accept that as proof that the Bible is true and right? Somehow I doubt it. These statements of 'true science' are just as flimsy as the ones you're quoting from the Qur'an.

The weird nonsense about cutting cattles' ears is as ridiculous a link as you could possibly make, a jump of mind-boggling proportions; it hasn't the foggiest of things to do with cloning. Only through the madness of blind faith can you interpret it as such, and I'm really having trouble understanding how much of your mind you have to block out to come to the conclusion that a passage like that has anything to do with cloning...
And is that passage saying that God himself *leads people astray on purpose*? Then punishes them for it?!? Is that fair? What about free will? If he can lead us astray, why can't he come down and talk to us? By what means does he lead people astray? Telepathy? Magic? Giving them the ability to reason and think and doubt rather than blindly believe what they're told?

Good examples of this 'whoa, you were right!' stuff actually happens in science all the time. Often scientists in the past have made predictions based on observations about phenomena they have no way of testing, such as the shape of the Earth (calculated as roughly spherical centuries ago, but only really proven once we went into space and looked at it), the relativity stuff that Einstein came up with, and so on.
Evolution deserves a big mention, because Darwin posited the idea long before the discovery of DNA. When DNA *was* discovered, it fit perfectly with what evolution had predicted; surely a satisfying 'whoa, he was right!' moment if ever there was one.

"The Quran has no contradictions, and if you find some, you are probably reading the translation incorrectly."
Yes, with the 'correct' way being the one that makes it seem like it has no contradictions. It must be read through the foggy lens of faithful bias, rather than objective interpretation, in order to seem as if it has no contradictions.
I can't however quote any myself due to unfamiliarity - and I'm aware this seems like I'm judging what I don't understand - but I know enough about holy books in general to know that they're never what they're supposed to be.
They are just old books, written by addled goatherds centuries ago.
Why people continue to bring them up in this day and age is beyond me...
Mahdi`s Avatar
Rating Orb Mahdi 14 United States 41C 0F
7 years ago | (6)
Well you bring up good points, and if I offended you I apologize. When I wrote this, it was mainly intended towards you. If someone else happened to read it then, that is fine but the reason I brought these things up is because I asked you once "so...what your saying is this all sorta happened?" and you said no, but I don't exactly remember the reasoning. You also said that If a deity didn't ask for praise, then that gives me more of a reason to praise him, and you gave your definition of the deity that may have existed. So let me ask you this, Do you worship this deity?

And again with the Nostradamus....he had many predictions, none scientific if i might add, and only a small percentage of them stand true today. That is in no way comparable to the Quran today. It would be difficult to prove that anything in there hasn't stood true today. If you could, you would have.

Again, you are guessing that I completely reject every single thing in all other religions and all other beliefs. This is incorrect. In Islam, we believe in the anointed prophet, the messiah, Jesus. We believe that there was an original Bible but was altered. It is against our religion to disbelieve in every little thing in the bible, because there is the possibility that some things were never changed. Also note that I believe somewhat in evolution, this being that some species change a little bit over time. The thing about evolution is that there were different types of animals, some taller than others, some shorter, tiny differences. The tallest recorded man is Robert Waldlow towering at 8 feet 11 inches. The shortest recorded woman was 23 inches tall. Does this mean that one person changed into a different person? Yep, yep, the woman must be more closely related to cats because she is closer to the size of cats then most humans right? micro evolution makes perfect sense, as does natural selection, but what doesn't make sense is that one species changed into another. The reason being is the discovery of chromosomes. These animals do not have the same chromosomes, and when a mutation occurs which changes the number or assortment of chromosomes, then the chance of the certain organism to produce offspring is much lower, thus making it harder to "give it's awesome traits" to the next offspring.

It is obvious that you did not do your own research, or look closely at the verse. It did not say that Allah is going to misguide them then punish them. If you looked at the verses before and after you could clearly see that it wasn't him talking. I admit, it was my mistake because I did not put the verses before and after so now I will do just that.

(The pagans), leaving Him, call but upon female deities: they call but upon Satan the persistent rebel! (117) Allah did curse him, but he said: "I will take of Thy servants a portion marked off. (118) "I will mislead them and I will create in them false desires; I will order them to slit the ears of cattle and to deface the (fair) nature created by Allah." Whoever, forsaking Allah, takes Satan for a friend, hath of a surety suffered a loss that is manifest. (119) Satan makes them promises, and creates in them false desires; but Satan's promises are nothing but deception. (120)

As you can easily see, in this verse it is easy to see that Satan was the one talking, and not Allah. Even if you didn't just ask yourself, "why would it mention satan here if Allah is doing all the evil" may Allah forgive me for saying this. If a verse doesn't really make sense, then go and see the ones before it and after it before you judge that particular one. Also, there are Subab nuzuul, or reasons of Revelation. This tell you when, why, how, and to who this was addressing.

I find it very odd that I already debunked evolution and yet you still refer to it...sound familiar? I did not have the expertise or the answers, but that doesn't mean it is automatically wrong does it? Of course not. If you did notice or not, on the page of evolution someone did respond that was in the field of biology, confirming my "failed reptile" theory. I find it pretty hurtful of how much you insult me, and I would please like you to criticize the topic not the person, I have already gotten enough of that on this site.

So there it is! Every argument you had is now answered, and debunked. If you do manage to see Mania, give him my apologies because this was an adressment to you directly, other people indirectly and I apologize if I had "arrogance". If you are reading this Mania, I apologize to you.

Well, one more thing I would like to bring up, is that our earth and our survival, and all of this here is not 1 in 1 billion, in fact it is much more, perhaps a couple trillion to 1. Multiply that by how many times the Quran was true, and there's an even bigger number to 1. If I insulted you, I did not mean to.

Well, if you deleted it or not, I did send you a note describing the "innocent people" being harmed and killed with no justice. I think I do deserve that respect, since I did spend lots of time writing it. Even if I am a close minded fool, I should at least be given the respect I deserve. "Treat others how you like to be treated"

On another note, since I want us to get on good terms, you may not know this, but I am a fan of your games, and I think they are well made. One thing I always wondered about is why Mardek gets changed to Rohoph in the dreamworld or dreamland, even after they got that item to let all members of the party enter dreamland in their form.

Good luck on Alora Fane by the way.

Well, goodbye pseudo
1 Reply
Mania`s Avatar
Rating Orb Mania 18 Netherlands SanguineMelancholic 23C 15F
7 years ago | (6)
I feel the need to reply to your post for several reasons; Some of your points were not explained and some were just wrong and offensive.

You start by claiming that polytheistic deities (Don't you mean religions?) make no sense because there is only one. Why? What makes polytheism less right then monotheism? I think you really should have explained this.

Next you say that all started from a big explosion. That makes sense, since the theory has some evidence that points to it being probable. But then you say: "where did that mass come from????" Well, where did your deity come from? If a deity can just exist, than why can't that mass? What makes a deity just being there more logical than mass just being there? Why must the universe have a begin? Can't it be a circle that keeps on happening, from expanding to collapsing, to begin expanding once more?

Now you say that since something is based on huge amounts of luck, it has to be a deity. Why? If I win the lottery, does that mean a deity exists? Something improbable is not impossible without a higher force being there to make it happen. Also, there are countless planets, so it's actually quite inevitable, not improbable, that one of these planets can sustain life like ours.

This is where it starts to get offensive. We *need* to worship something? I don't, plenty of people don't. I'm not lying to myself when I don't worship, I truly believe that I don't have to worship, just like you feel like you have to worship. It's true that we all ponder, we ponder to get answers. "A deity did it" is not an acceptable answer to me so I ponder further than that. I don't quit when I can't explain something and say it's a god, it's just wrong to do so. If we don't know something, than research it more, or wait until you have knowledge and start researching it again. Holes in our understanding should either be left unfilled for the time, rather than filled with one's favorite deity. It just gets in the way of other people's research.

These things I would find myself in agreement with have sorely disappointed and angered me! You claim that what you were about to say would be the truth, before there could even be someone to judge those statements, which I shall do now.

1: Do not judge what you don't understand. Do as you say than. You judge atheists without realizing what they stand for and what they believe. This point would be more powerful if you actually followed it yourself, you just feel hypocritical for not doing so.

2: I don't, plenty of people don't. I don't feel there is a deity, why should I? You haven't given a single good reason why the existence of a deity is probable. Nothing about believing in deities speaks for itself, it's not something everyone does. Once again, you have judged without understanding.

3: Yes it can. Improbable does not equal impossible. When I pick a random number between 1 and 1,000,000,000, there is a 1 out of 1,000,000,000 chance that I'd pick 1,234,567. That's not something impossible, just something improbable. Extreme luck happens, even if the odds of it happening are very small. This has been another judgement without understanding.

4: Atheists are trying prove that gods don't exist for the sake of themselves, for the sake of advancement and for the sake of you. They do it to help everyone. Atheist try to prove that no deity exists because they care for others. They want people to stop living their lives for some deity, they want people to live life to their fullest. They want to fill the gaps that have been filled with deities, so that we may understand this world that we live in and the universe that lies beyond. They want to explain the greatness of everything. They wish to save you from what they see as a life of lies, just like you try to do the same for them. Your statement was an outright LIE, and was possibly offensive to atheists. (Oh, and it was made out of an lack of understanding.)

Your four points have not stood as strong as you expected, I'm afraid. You should have been less confident about them.

Now you're going to say that the Quran has scientifically proven things before they were understood. Well, let me scientifically proof, while understanding the things, why this proof is quite dubious and not at all scientific. Also, you are using an ancient book that was written by an illiterate and non-scientific man to help your points, that has been translated dubiously multiple times. That does not sound like a very convincing source to me.

"We will soon show them Our signs in the Universe and INSIDE THEIR SELVES, until it will become quite clear to them that it is the truth. Is it not sufficient as regards your Lord that He is a witness over all things?"

I sure hope so, I'm becoming quite impatient, when is this proof going to appear? It's been centuries and still no proof! And it is not sufficient to regard HIM as witness over all things, for I don't think He exists.

"Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder?"

Vague. What does this mean? What are the heavens? What earth, our Earth? Who are the Unbelievers? Who are "we"? How did we clove "them" asunder? This passage is so vague, you could apply it to many findings.

"And assuredly I will lead them astray and assuredly I will arouse in them vain desires, and assuredly I will incite them and they will cut the ears of cattle; and assuredly I will incite them and they will alter ALLAH's creation.' And whoever takes Satan for a friend instead of ALLAH, he certainly suffers a manifest loss."

Who is "them"? How will he arouse? What desires? How are they vain? How will He incite them? What creation? How will they be altered? Why does ALLAH do these thing? Why wasn't the Quran less vague? You answer these questions by saying it talks about cloning. It doesn't. It's meaningless vague drivel, that's what it is.

Now you claim that the Quran doesn't hold flaws, but can be mistranslated. A flawless book is clear, there should be no room for mistranslations. A flawless book can't be read improperly. A flawless book has verses that apply to all people at all times, all people should be able to relate to it, and it should be relatable at all times. The Quran unfortunately doesn't sound so very flawless to me based on your description of it.

At the moment I'm not very interested in your link. What I could see from the site is that it is a religious site. That means that it is most likely prejudiced and will only present theories that agree with their site and only debunk theories that they disagree with. Please provide a link to a site that does not look like it is biased towards one side of a matter.

That's about everything I found strange about your post. I don't mean to offend anyone, and I'm not out to fight. My goal was to make clear that the things you said are not as simple as you made them out to be. I'd very much like it if people would rate this post based on contributions and not on how much you agree with me. And have a nice weekend everyone!
Mahdi`s Avatar
Rating Orb Mahdi 14 United States 41C 0F
7 years ago | (5)
Well, I did answer most of your questions in my reply to pseudo, but I would like to say that this comment was intended towards him, and the reason I put the unlikeliness is because I did ask him once "so do you think this all just happened" and he said no, and wasn't quite sure of himself. If I insulted you I apologize.

The reason I am putting this on the table is because it seems that the entire bases of atheism is a 1 in a trillion chance, and I can't believe this. I will also put another verse that isn't as "vague".


"And in the livestock there is a lesson for you: we provide you with a drink from their bellies. From the midst of digested food and blood, you get pure milk, delicious for the drinkers."

Now, if you go and check, White blood cells are found in many types of milk. This provides many benefits to whoever drinks it. This is pretty straightforward verse that has been confirmed. If you don't want to belive me then don't! do the reasearch yourself and here is the [LINK] to finding verses in an English translation. Again, Don't yell at me if it doesn't make sense because it is possible that some of the meaning was lost through translation. I do want to get on good terms with everyone on this site, I really do, so sorry if I insulted you, and I would not like us to have a feud.
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sirferret2`s Avatar
Rating Orb sirferret2 17 United States MelancholicSanguine 9C 0F
7 years ago | (3)
Well, I generally never comment on these posts and whatnot due to timidity. I feel somewhat nervous typing this right now, but I figured that I would take a go at giving my answer to these questions. Why not, after all.

- How many of these deities do you believe in?
- By coincidence, is/are the deity or deities you believe in the same ones that you were taught to believe in since birth?
- Why do you not believe in the rest?
Considering that it's a list of polytheistic deities, I'm probably going to have to say I don't believe in many of them, if any at all. That's my expectation at any rate. I've not actually looked at them much considering that the page is really a list of *more* lists. I expect it'd take a bit too long to consider each of them in their right contexts and whatnot if there's just going to be list after list after list... But I doubt many of the people commenting have strictly looked through the list anyway. The point wouldn't be the list itself after all... I of course am another who believes in a monotheistic deity though. I've been raised as, and still am, a member of the Bahá'í Faith, a 148 year old religion that I assume most of you wouldn't have heard of. So the deity (I use "deity" instead of "G.o.d" because of this whole Mbombo thing, of course. Just imagine that I use the usual three letter word, if you will.) I believe in is indeed the one I've been taught about since birth. Now about not believing in other deities, two of the Bahá'í Faith's central ideas are about the "Unity of G.o.d" and "Unity of religion". I personally believe rather firmly in what my religion teaches, and these two concepts, to summarize, say that most of the world's religions are like different stages of a single core religion that has progressed over time and that we all worship the same deity in the end. For clarification, the whole thing about "different stages" goes with the idea that all of the profits of G.o.d, such as Jesus and Muhammad (And Bahá'u'lláh, the profit/founder of the Bahá'í Faith) were sent by the same deity at different points in time in order to deliver religious teachings that were most suitable for that period in time. I sort of think of it was being easily worded as the newer major religions being "updates" upon the previous ones, but I figure there would be plenty of people who would dislike to hear it said that way. After all, it's basically tantamount to me saying that Christianity has been updated and those who still call themselves Christians missed out on it, and I certainly wouldn't be happy about hearing that implied if I was one. So I guess that my point on these previous 2 sentences, which are spiraling away from me pretty quickly I think, would just be for my simplifying the idea but also kinda immediately giving my clarification that I don't mean to intentionally imply these sorts of things which I think could be implied, so that perhaps those who would infer that kind of thing would not be offended. But, uh, yes, I ought to carry on to the other three questions oughtn't I...

- Why do you think people don't worship or follow the deity or deities that you worship or follow?
- Do you think that they disrespect or willingly shun that deity or those deities, and deny it or them because they want to live selfish lives instead of being subservient?
- Do you refuse to make blood sacrifices to the Aztec Sun Deities because you disrespect or wish to shun them, or because you don't want to accept them into your life?

As I've said, I think almost all of those who worship do indeed worship the same deity in the end. And I say "almost", or alternatively, "most" because just saying "all" is rather too much of a sweeping statement. There are going to be some religions/cults out there that have in fact been made up by some completely human individuals, regardless on whether you think the same is true for major religions. And for some of the older or somewhat more obscure ones, I wouldn't know what to say. Such as the Aztec deities that were brought up. I think that's a rather good and unexpected (to me, at least) question to toss in there. I'd love to feel like I'm in a good position to just state how everything such as the Aztecs fit into the context of an idea like "unity of religion", but I'm not terribly informed on the necessary information. Unsurprisingly I wouldn't know much of the ins and outs of the Aztecs' belief systems, but I'm also not one of the most informed people of my own religion. I'm not the most strictly religious. I certainly believe, but like how there's plenty of Christians who aren't strictly religious enough to go to church every week, I'm somewhat casual in my religion too. But over the years I've still wanted to at least be moderately well informed at worst on how one could explain the ideas of the Bahá'í Faith, since I've gotten used to nobody knowing what it is and asking me to explain it if the topic were to ever come up. Though I think I'm slowly wandering away from my main topic again. I don't think I'm well informed enough to give any sturdy word on my views of the Aztecs or any religious systems like that. I'd be willing to make a decision on how I viewed them as compared to my faith only after studying up on the matter somewhat. Until such a time, I'd place myself as more or less neutral of opinion as a default.

Oh joy, it looks like now either I back out and erase this whole thing, making it an overall waste of time, or I go and click the ominous "Add Comment" button and see how poorly received I am. Yay. Odd how I seem to procrastinate it somewhat by more or less narrating more redundant words into the comment box that I really could and perhaps should just backspace out entirely... Oh well.
woolfguy`s Avatar
Rating Orb woolfguy 15 Ireland PhlegmaticSanguine 37C 2F
7 years ago | (3)
You asked for my opinion so her it is. I don't have much experience with religion. My mother was Christian and my dad was Jewish. My dad left my mother, and the country, when I was very young so I sort of idolized everything about him. Only getting to see him once a year I tried to be as much like him as I could. I supported Liverpool, ate a lot of white bread and proclaimed myself Jewish.

However as I grew older I began to question my religion. Who is this God? Why do I have to pray to him? What gives him the right to decide where I'm going to be for eternity based on an all to brief existence? Eventually I stopped believing in God altogether. Although I still believe Jesus Christ existed and I quite like him. In fact I hope he comes back so I can help him burn down the Vatican and start a new church. One that doesn't steal, murder and rape. This might seem harsh but how many people have died under the excuse that its 'Gods will'? How long has the church been using money taken from the poor and given it to the rich? As for the rapes... I'm from Ireland, the Church here has been up to its neck in child abuse cover ups for generations. Its one of the many reasons we don't let the church control the government any more.

Honestly I think the world would be better off without religion. If everyone believed that WE are in control of our own destiny and not some unknown force we would be much harder to manipulate. That and racism would soon come to an end. I've always thought racism is pointless since eventually everyone in the world is going to be black. Then the only thing standing in the way of everyone getting along will be religion.

Or maybe the world can change. Maybe people can learn to accept each others differences without pulling out a gun. I can honestly say I know hardly anyone (there is always a few individuals) who would judge someone based solely on their skin colour or religion. I have never been judged or discriminated against for my religion. Apart from one person at my school who attempted to bully me for having a Jewish dad I have never been the target for discrimination. And just so you know I made that idiot regret the things he said about me and my dad. Or rather some some of my bigger friends cornered him after school and threatened him. Which really proves my point that if we try get along with everyone we WILL benefit from it. I know I have. I also like to think most people I am friends with have benefited from me.

Over half my religion classes in school are taken up with learning about Jesus. The other half is about moral issues discussed in the Bible and my religion teacher hurriedly telling us about the history of the other religions so she can get back to the 'important parts of the course'. Even though I don't believe Jesus was actually the son of God I sometimes find myself using the things he taught in my everyday life. For instance I don't seek praise for doing good deeds any more. I used to try and make sure as many people as possible could see what I was doing. Then I read something Jesus said. I can't remember the exact quote but he basically said that if you do a good deed only looking for a reward its not a good deed. I now simply do good things without caring who knows I've done it and always feel good about myself for doing them.

So religion can make people do good things or it can drive them to do terrible things. If only we weren't all so gullible. Most people just pick out their favourite rules from their holy books and stick with those. The ones that let them keep living the way they are already while believing that they are now in Gods good graces. Someday soon the world is going to change and everyone will either have to accept each other or look for other racists and realise how few of them there actually are. That or we'll all kill each other in a big, bloody religious war. But I for one like to believe that the first one is entirely possible and that deep down, everyone is a good person who would always help another human being given a chance.
Black Wolf`s Avatar
Rating Orb Black Wolf 18 Hungary PhlegmaticMelancholic 146C 3F
7 years ago | (9)
All right, you asked for it (just so that nobody will take it as attempt to convert others).
What scientific accuracy? The Bible states a lot of these... For example, that the Earth is floating in emptiness without being supported by any solid base (in the book of Job, I don't know the exact verse), that there are so many stars that humans could never count them (somewhere in the first book of Moses /Genesis/ - note, that all ancient people believed that the stars are countable by humans, for example, Ptolemaios claimed that there are exactly 1056 stars), describing dinosaurs (somewhere around the end of the book of Job), and a lot of things like that, like ocean currents, biological statements (importance of blood), and so forth.
Fulfilled prophecies? My favourite example takes place from Daniel11:2 for a while... Exact writing about Alexander the Great, his wars and his empire before the thing actually happened. But there are countless other prophecies, many of the psalms contain details on Jesus's death (not exact wording, but "his bones shall not be broken", and so on), it's truly amazing I think.
A common misinterpretation (most often by anti-Christians) is that the Earth is flat, and the sun revolves around it. This is nothing more than a medieval fantasy based upon the fact written in the book of Isaiah (yet it writes that the Earth was round - that could mean circle or a sphere as well, and medieval people thought that it referred to circle, while it does not).
"Outdated and manmade"? Prove it I say! There's nothing outdated in Christianity. It's the thing that will always remain modern. And it has nothing to do with racism and all that things that you mentioned - for example, atheists like to use the Crusades to prove that Christianity is untrue/evil (depends on the person). And that's unfounded for two reasons:
1. The followers of the religion will never disprove a religion itself.
2. Jesus told us NOT to kill anyone... So anyone who kills someone 'in the name of the Christ' or 'For Christ' or whatever is nothing more than a filthy liar (sorry for the words, but I hate these at least as much as atheists). The Crusades had economic and social (not religious) causes, such as many knights did not have any land to live from (always the first-born child inherited the lands) and they meant a serious threat to the society, and so on... And the church was the first to twist God's word to make them fit their own purposes and manipulate crowds with false words. Blaming Christianity for the Crusades and the inquisition and such is like blaming Darwin for the acts of Hitler, who twisted and bent his theory to adjust it to his own sick beliefs and used it to slaughter. No religions abused the power they had, but the people in religious positions did.

If you believe that the Bible wasn't inspired by God, then it's all the same, but I don't think that man should ever rewrite or update that was inspired by God...
And of scientific experiences (I was taught a lot of science as I belong to a science class) I've found (logically and written, both) that believing what the Bible says does not lead to a paradox. Atheism, also known as the belief that no God(s) exist, does.
Black Wolf`s Avatar
Rating Orb Black Wolf 18 Hungary PhlegmaticMelancholic 146C 3F
7 years ago | (6)
Why does this replace "G.O.D." with Mbomombo the White Giant? I don't find it amusing or funny at all, only a bit weird to read.
Darkhaven`s Avatar
Rating Orb Darkhaven 21 United States PhlegmaticSanguine 2C 2F
7 years ago | (7)
How do any of the ''scientific accuracies'' you've described prove that there's a god at all? It's quite easy for any man to determine that there's a whole lot of stars, and that if someone stabs me and I start leaking this red fluid all over, I might die. Therefore, red fluid is important. Your level of science is about as useful to your argument as me telling you that I have a block of swiss cheese in my hand, and therefore, god exists.

Also! I do need some advice from you, regarding some of the passages in the bible and how to follow them:

When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev. 1:9). The problem is my neighbors; they claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?

I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?

I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev. 15:19 - 24). The problem do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided that they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?

I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?

A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?

Lev 21:10 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room?

Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

I know from Lev. 11:6 - 8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton / polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. It is really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev. 24:10 - 16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

Thank you for your help in helping me understand the best way to follow the up-to-date, unchanging word of your god.
Black Wolf`s Avatar
Rating Orb Black Wolf 18 Hungary PhlegmaticMelancholic 146C 3F
7 years ago | (9)
Ah, thank you, again I've bumped into a mocker.
Have you ever heard that Jesus abolished most of the parts of the Old Testament (I mean its rules and laws). Jesus told us not to kill... So you can't kill anyone "morally"... It's quite obvious that you always cited from the Old Testament. These regulations are no longer valid. You're in a delay of 2000 years...
There's no need for sacrifice anymore... Jesus was the sacrifice. He offered himself without obligation, out of his own will, to serve as the sacrifice forever, for every people.

"It's quite easy for any man to determine that there's a whole lot of stars"... interesting that no ancient Greek scientists or philosophers could get to this conclusion and they stated that there are exactly 1056 stars. For a modern man, perhaps, but not for ancient people...
Same for blood... of course you know, you've been taught. But if someone stabs me, it penetrates skin, flesh, most probably touches several organs like liver and/or stomach and/or lungs and/or heart AND I lose red fluid... Is it so obvious which is the cause I might die because of?

Other scientific accuracies and laws that prove that a Creator exists are seen below... on a reply comment to a reply of my comments.
1 Reply
Pseudolonewolf`s Avatar
Rating Orb A β Pseudolonewolf 23 United Kingdom MelancholicPhlegmatic 2257C 559F
7 years ago | (1)
People back in Biblical times believed that the cosmos consisted of a flat, circular Earth, with a round, solid vault of Heaven above it, as a dome, with stars attached to this dome, the sun and moon as small balls that entered and exited this dome via windows, a trapdoor through which rain was poured, and a throne at the top of the vault of Heaven on which God sat.
Please read this: [LINK]

The passages mentioned on that page fit much more easily into place if you think of the Bible as a work of an ancient culture, representing only what *they* knew and thought, rather than a prophetic, divinely inspired work of absolute truth. You need to look at it objectively to understand what it actually says, instead of trying to make it fit what we know now based on bias.

It clearly speaks of a geocentric universe, anyway; there's nothing in there to suggest that the Earth revolves around the sun. A glaring omission, I'd say, if it were inspired truth.

You should try reading a post by Mahdi on this news post, where he argues that the Qur'an is true because certain passages fit with modern scientific understanding, proving that it was written by God himself.
Somehow I doubt you'll be convinced that the Qur'an is true from such flimsy passages that barely fit at all, yet your book's 'facts' and 'prophecies' are just as vague.
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