MEMBER LOGIN   |   Username: Password:
Twitter: (The Twitter thing is temporarily down due to a Twitter-related bug or something!)
Recent Updates: The New Site is now open! (5 years ago) Which of [these facial express... Vulpin Adventure OST| "Blast to the past!", a review of Plazma Burst 2 by Rating Orb Duogduogduog
...
Pseudolonewolf`s Avatar How about this? Sat 20th Aug 2011 10:31pm

Category: The New Site

A few hours ago, I wrote a post suggesting an idea for the new site where you have to 'rate' your own posts; when you click 'Submit', you're presented with a five-point scale and have to choose a value which represents how happy you are with your own post...

But instead of that, perhaps it could ask you how much you wanted ratings on that post? With values like 'Please rate this!', or 'I'd appreciate ratings', 'I wouldn't mind ratings', 'I don't want ratings', 'Please don't rate this'...

I want to encourage people to use the UFELTA system more than the orbs are currently used, and seeing posts marked in such a way where they clearly WANT ratings might compel people to use it more?

It'd also be a way for people to post on userpages but ask others to not rate their simple greetings or things like that... I know people have said 'please don't rate this' about other posts I've seen as well.

Using it to beg for ratings wouldn't work as well as it might seem, though, because it wouldn't be begging for *positive* ratings necessarily; if someone writes a poor post but asks for ratings, then they'll get the negative ones that they deserve.

So what do you think? It might be better than the previous idea, anyway. Or I could just scrap the whole thing.

(Rather than forcing you to choose after submitting, instead maybe you could just choose from a drop-down menu or something while writing, which would default to the neutral value...)

Note: Whatever the person chose, it wouldn't *prevent* you from rating or anything, so if a troll wrote spam and asked for no ratings, you should still give his posts the negative ratings that they deserve.
24 comments

 

24 Commentson 13 roots

Lyle`s Avatar
Rating Orb Lyle 24 Australia 65C 28F
6 years ago | (2)
Ooooo! How about this!

When you make a post/comment, you have the choice to opt-in or opt-out for ratings (as you said). But the only posts that count towards your total post count stats are the ones that you have asked for ratings for. So if you look at my profile and see that I've made 50 posts, that means that I've made 50 quality posts that I felt were good enough to put out there for ratings. That should stop people spamming to get high post counts.

To elaborate, I think it's important to be able to spam some quick comments, both to keep the conversation flowing (if you've just got one or two things to add) and to reward people for a good post (by replying "huh, good point", "sounds interesting, I'm going to try it"). Otherwise people who have a good personal rating feel forced to make every post they make an Epic War and Peace masterpiece. And you end up with threads that just have 3 comments that are a page each, and no one else feels they can write something of the same calibur.

I came to this realisation when I was replying to Brocks Square-Enix rant thread, and was thinking that it would be a great idea to start a "recommend obscure but good rpgs" thread. I think it has a lot of merit. But the problem is for that thread to work, you need to have people willing to chime in with "huh, that sounds like fun, I'm gonna pick it up this afternoon" "Yeah, I played that too, and it was awesome because of X X and X" etc. But people are dissuaded from doing this because those comments would only get brown ratings. And so you would end up with a thread that has maybe two or three posts but is otherwise dead. And you never really know if what you wrote was useful to other people.

I think the conclusion is that I am getting convinced that an opt-out and UFELTA is going to be a great upgrade (and now that I know UFELTA is pronouced "you felt 'er" I'm never going to forget how it's spelt again).
Brilliand`s Avatar
Rating Orb Brilliand 23 United States MelancholicPhlegmatic 27C 6F
6 years ago | (2)
Removing the comments from the post-count won't do the trick; raising post count isn't the only reason people troll (particularly on this site, where the post count is rather hard to find, and doesn't have any side effects such as allowing you to post links). Quite often, the only reason for making a garbage post is to make other people read the garbage in the post.

The problem that you describe will be partially solved by UFELTA, since UFELTA has no neutral ratings; a neutral rating is no rating, and doesn't get averaged in. But, on the other hand, I don't think that I would want to read such a thread (as "recommend obscure but good rpgs") and see stuff like "I'm going to try that"; such comments don't help me to decide what game I'm going to play next.
Lyle`s Avatar
Rating Orb Lyle 24 Australia 65C 28F
6 years ago | (1)
Uuuuhhh... I'm not really talking about trolls (who are intentially antisocial and unhelpful), I'm more talking about spammers (as in, the people that think they're being useful or contributing by spamming their thoughts on every single topic all the time and have a post count of over 9000 and a posts per day ratio of 10 or more).

I'm not talking about a recommendations thread that ONLY has "I'm going to try that" and similar comments over and over. Maybe my observations are incorrect, but a thread needs both CONTENT and ACTIVITY to survive. If there is no activity, then people won't bother posting content. People who post content need activity in the form of feedback, otherwise they feel all their thought and effort has gone to waste, and stop producing content. If there is no content, the activity is just random and meaningless. There is no point in reading a thread that just has activity and no content. What the ratings system has done is increased the content, but removed a lot of the activity of the forums - where we basically have a lot of dead threads with 3-5 posts and then the people posting content get mad at the forum games threads for having so much activity in comparison.

The form of such a thread would go something like
Poster 1: You guys should try this *long, complex post on good game 1*
Poster 2: The game I am recommending is *long and complex post on good game 2*
Poster 3: Oh really? That sounds cool, I'm going to check game 1.
Poster 4: Just wanted to 2nd the game 2 recommendation. It's great because of X and X
Poster 5: (there's a lot of people reading this, I could convince some people to try out my favorite game!) I'm going to recommend *long and complex post on good game 3*
Poster 3: I'm halfway through game 1 and my thoughts are....

Where as if you don't have any of the noise/activity posts, you get
Poster 1: You guys should try this *long, complex post on good game 1*
Poster 2: The game I am recommending is *long and complex post on good game 2*
...
...
...
...
thread locked due to 30 days of inactivity


Do you see what I mean? One more thing - when you say see stuff like "I'm going to try that"; such comments don't help me to decide what game I'm going to play next. - I disagree... because other people's interest in a game (especially other people on a forum who I recognise and like) increases my own interest in a game. Not including the novelty of ten people on a forum trying out a game at the same time, which is a lot of fun.
Drostie`s Avatar
Rating Orb Drostie 26 Netherlands SanguineMelancholic 78C 65F
6 years ago | (4)
What made you choose UFELTA over, say, UFALET? Have you considered other permutations of UFELTA, like EFAULT or FLUTEA or ELFTAU?
Pseudolonewolf`s Avatar
Rating Orb A β Pseudolonewolf 23 United Kingdom MelancholicPhlegmatic 2257C 559F
6 years ago | (4)
Yes, I went over a few and found 'UFELTA' mildly amusing since it sounds like an accusation from a sexual harassment trial ('you felt 'er' or something).
I also needed to have A at one of the ends since it's separate from the rest (as its votes are merely visual and don't count towards the orb).
'FLUTEA' isn't one that I came up with, for whatever reason, but that one's not bad either. Others, like 'UFALET', have a harsher, more belittling sound than 'UFELTA', and there's a 'cellar door' component to how I wanted it to sound, I suppose.
It wouldn't be too difficult at this point to change the way the letters are shown, so I might experiment a bit later to see what seems best.
Brilliand`s Avatar
Rating Orb Brilliand 23 United States MelancholicPhlegmatic 27C 6F
6 years ago | (2)
Actually... I thought simple greetings (except in the chat) were against the rules, as per the "Elaborate" section. This doesn't seem to be Pseudo's opinion, though, so I'm confused.
Pseudolonewolf`s Avatar
Rating Orb A β Pseudolonewolf 23 United Kingdom MelancholicPhlegmatic 2257C 559F
6 years ago | (2)
I don't prefer comments being used for that purpose, but I suppose I can see how sometimes people might want to post like that on their friends' userpages or something. Since they are sort of rule-breaking though, that's why it might be useful to request no ratings for them, because otherwise people might ('fairly') rate them down.

I mean, something that just said "hi filler text filler text filler text filler text" or something would deserve negative ratings even if it asked not to receive ratings, but something like a simple "Hello, how've you been? I haven't heard from you for a while" might be able to avoid ratings if it was specifically marked as not wanting any.
Abbx901`s Avatar
Rating Orb Abbx901 15 Pakistan SanguineCholeric 149C 20F
6 years ago | (2)
Well, yes, that seems a good idea. Yes.
The rating you give your post is also going to express your self-assessment of it.
I really don't like it when I write hello posts or regular posts and people rate me yellow and neutral, so I guess we can prevent that on the new site. Huzzah!
EricLightscythe`s Avatar
Rating Orb EricLightscythe 15 India MelancholicPhlegmatic 53C 51F
6 years ago | (5)
But then, wouldn't it be possible for a troll to write some spam and then disable ratings for his own post?
I mean, if you select the option do not rate, then nobody can rate the spam (if it is) you have posted, right?
.....Or have I misunderstood this UFELTA rating system??
Spiritlord`s Avatar
Rating Orb Spiritlord 15 United Kingdom MelancholicPhlegmatic 71C 6F
6 years ago | (5)
That's why I don't think this will work. I can imagine a lot of trolls trying not to get noticed by stopping their comments from being rated.
Sunflower`s Avatar
Rating Orb β Sunflower 19 Poland PhlegmaticSanguine 73C 22F
6 years ago | (9)
...
...
Quote from the end of blog entry:
Note: Whatever the person chose, it wouldn't *prevent* you from rating or anything, so if a troll wrote spam and asked for no ratings, you should still give his posts the negative ratings that they deserve.
Could you people please read whole entries sometimes? ^^'
Mortech`s Avatar
Rating Orb Mortech 18 United States PhlegmaticCholeric 226C 101F
6 years ago | (3)
Is the purpose of this to prevent people from rating comments that the author doesn't want to be rated? If so, then it would perhaps be better just to give an option to disable ratings.
Mortech`s Avatar
Rating Orb Mortech 18 United States PhlegmaticCholeric 226C 101F
6 years ago | (3)
In response to the note, it makes no sense that you would try to prevent trolls from blocking ratings, since 'this comment is wholly inappropriate and is better off deleted' is not part of the proposed UFELTA rating system. Usefulness is close, but it entirely possible that someone will make a post that is neither useful nor detrimental. It would be better to keep ratings separate and simply flag trollish comments, which moderators might then have the option to delete.
Pseudolonewolf`s Avatar
Rating Orb A β Pseudolonewolf 23 United Kingdom MelancholicPhlegmatic 2257C 559F
6 years ago | (2)
There may well be a way to flag spam, but even so, trollish posts aren't the main reason I'd suggested this thing in the news post, since it applies to well-intentioned posts too. "Please don't rate this simple greeting" and "please, I spent a lot of time on this, so I'd appreciate ratings" would at least affect me as a rater; I know I'd want to give someone ratings if they obviously wanted them, and I suppose I'd hold back if they didn't want any.
I wouldn't want to allow people to *disable* ratings though because that shouldn't be up to the poster. Selecting their rating preference for a certain post would only serve as a guideline or a request, not a rule.
Lyle`s Avatar
Rating Orb Lyle 24 Australia 65C 28F
6 years ago | (2)
I like the idea of an 'opt out' for ratings. I'm not sure if there is (in practice) much of a difference between "please rate/appreciate ratings/wouldn't mind ratings"' or "'don't want ratings/please don't rate" though.

As you said, in certain situations, a comment doesn't really need to be rated.

Personally my favorite ratings are just what other people say about what I write. I like to read responses like "huh. fair point" "I support this idea" "Hahaha, that was pretty funny!" "I disagree, but meh, but horses for courses". It's a bit more personal.
Tama Yoshi`s Avatar
Rating Orb Tama Yoshi 18 Canada PhlegmaticCholeric 68C 33F
6 years ago | (4)
Well you have spam, and you have welcome messages, or something along those lines. Both beg for a lack of rating (unless the spammer begs for attention, but I doubt that's relevant at all!). The thing is it's hard to define a post that REALLY should not have ratings and a post that the PERSON does not want to have ratings on. Since the... erh.. algorithms that define the fairness of lack-of-a rating are probably very arbitrary... Then I suppose making this 'I want to be rated [0-5]' thing arbitrary is good...

Urgh. As I wrote this I just realized that because one does not want ratings does not mean he won't be getting any. So that makes sense! If you see spam that 'does not want to be rated' then you can rate it down anyway...

Though let's take a few steps back just for now. What is the FIRST goal of the ratings? Hmm? It's to tell the reader whether to read or not the post. So if you disrecommend rating a post it's a little like saying 'uh, don't read this or something'... Maybe you should make a poll about how the ratings actually influence the things that people read. That would be very relevant.
Pseudolonewolf`s Avatar
Rating Orb A β Pseudolonewolf 23 United Kingdom MelancholicPhlegmatic 2257C 559F
6 years ago | (2)
That's not what I'd see as the main purpose of ratings... Rather than being about potential readers, I'd see them as being a way of rewarding or telling off the poster, giving them back something for their efforts or saying 'we don't really want you posting like that here, so try to improve in future'.

And with that in mind, allowing people to choose whether they want their posts rated or not would be like them specifying whether or not they were open to constructive criticism, or whether they wanted something for their hard work. I mean, I'd more likely rate a post that explicitly had 'please rate me!' attached to it since it just seems like the polite thing to do.
Friendly Fox`s Avatar
Rating Orb Friendly Fox 15 Brazil MelancholicPhlegmatic 50C 0F
6 years ago | (4)
I think that is a very good idea, for things like... Like this comment. I don't think this would deserve any rating. It's too short to have any content.
Seagaia`s Avatar
Rating Orb Seagaia 19 United States MelancholicCholeric 12C 4F
6 years ago | (4)
I only see it as helpful. Maybe make it possible to set one as a permanent option for people who usually don't make "hello" type posts - so yes, use the drop-down idea but be able to choose your default or something.
Page 1 of 2: