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Pseudolonewolf`s Avatar Raider Ideas Wed 3rd Mar 2010 10:47am

Category: Raider

I mentioned in the Weekly Update that I've been sort of planning on changing Raider to make it appealing if I'm going to finish it at all, because to try the same not-very-successful formula three more times to finish off the series might be very foolish indeed.

I don't want to lose the old fans, but I do want to bring more people into it. I wouldn't expect the frustrating difficulty to be the only appealing factor, surely... But then again, the game is so basic that it could well be. Hmm.

I originally planned for the game to be more, uh, complex than it is, but went with what was a simpler route just so then I could get the game finished at all. Now that all the hard parts are done, though, I can perhaps return to something more complex and interesting?

Firstly, I would get rid of the one-huge-level-per-world format and replace it with something more like... two or three or four smaller levels per world. Perhaps I wouldn't even make the difficulty that different, but it'd come across as less daunting if you weren't expected to finish one huge level all in one go.
Since I'll be including all five episodes in the one game, I'll have a sort of 'planet map' thing like in SMECOF, for those of you that remember that, where you can see all the planets (or the first level's prison ship thing) available and travel to them once they're unlocked. This would mean that you could travel BACK to earlier levels, and I'll get to that later.
When travelling to a specific world, you'd find yourself on a sort of tile-based top-down world map thing... For those of you who've played Super Mario Bros 3 on the NES or SNES, it'd be like that; very, uh, boxy, with clear paths and levels on those paths. Maybe. Or something like that, anyway.
Each world would generally have two or three compulsory levels then a boss level, but some levels might have two exits or something, or there might be secret off-the-path levels with relics or items or something.

I MAY consider doing segments when flying between worlds where you control your ship and play a section like SMECOF, but those sorts of games are not something I'm competent at making (due to inexperience with them; I'd have to figure stuff out as I went along), and it might lengthen development more than I want (I just want this game to be finished and done with).

Something I would definitely want to do is to sort of... merge the current HP systems and stuff with the 'RPG mechanics' of Raider Zero... Or rather, it'd have mechanics more like the Zelda games or something, where you have an inventory and so on, but your 'stats' are determined by your 'heart containers', your weapon and your armour.
Your HP would be in the same form as the pixelated Raider rather than Raider Zero's numerical value, and you'd start with 3 HP or something and get an additional one after each boss, though there could be some (or even the equivalent of 'heart pieces') scattered throughout the levels (particularly secret levels). Each single HP may be 4 HP like Zelda though, with average attacks doing '1 HP', but some weaker ones doing only 0.25 HP or something... Hmm.
You'd also be able to pick up and store life-restoring items, like the Adrenaline Shots in R0, maybe...
I'm unsure how weapon and armour upgrades would be handled, actually...

I'd also like to give the player special attacks for beating bosses, like the ability to shoot electricity for beating the Wraith, and the ability to shoot fire for beating level 2... I'm unsure whether to just make these new weapons, or something else like 'magic'.

I want to add SPECIAL ACQUIRED ABILITIES which seem to be the norm for platform games, with things like Double Jump, etc. You'd acquire these on special levels rather than after beating bosses, usually. I'd have to work out which abilities I'd make available.
With these, you could return to earlier levels to unlock new paths or find treasure. There'd generally only be one Artefact (or were they called Relics? I forget!) per level, and they would generally be difficult to find, with many of them requiring later abilities to get to.

Powerups may also be lying around, granting you increased or special powers temporarily.

There'd obviously be features like the ability to save your progress with this 'more complex' system...

Anyway, for you few Raider fans, would changing it like this RUIN the appeal of the game for you?

For the rest of you, is there anything else I should add, change, remove, etc, if you care about Raider at all?

(And just to be clear, whatever I decide to do, I won't do it until I've finished MARDEK 3. That's my priority right now. I just thought I should start preparing for Raider because I'll be trying to finish it after MARDEK 3 is done, as it's the only AS2 project I intend to finish before switching over to AS3 and redoing various other games... and if I'm prepared, I can get started as soon as I release MARDEK 3.)


37 Commentson 21 roots

RazgrizX`s Avatar
Rating Orb RazgrizX 18 Brazil PhlegmaticMelancholic 38C 4F
8 years ago | (0)
I liked most of these ideas despite being one of the fans that like Raider for its difficulty, they wouldn't ruin the game at all to me and you did say you might keep the difficulty but if you do make it easier to be more appealing maybe you could add a hidden, optional 6th world that is much harder than the others. I specially like the idea of getting bonuses from the bosses(be it more health or new powers), it's more satisfying than getting nothing at all and might make the game more interesting. The only thing I didn't like is that it seems these new levels will be less straightforward... Will they be like Raider 0? I just prefer linear platformers because I have a bad sense of direction and usually get lost on non-linear ones( I remember getting lost several times in the sewers and in the jungle of R0...) but it wouldn't bother me that much, I just would like to know.
gnome`s Avatar
Rating Orb gnome 19 United States PhlegmaticCholeric 386C 81F
8 years ago | (0)
Well, it certainly does make the series seem far less frustrating... but it rather does ruin the appeal of the older episodes.
I understand that this is a terrifically brilliant idea, but certainly not for this game--the whole new system with power ups, magic attacks, stats, inventories, etc etc just seems so unnecessary, timely, and completely unrelated to Raider; I think you're forgetting what this saga was originally supposed to be. I recommend that you just finish up this series as is, because you'd essentially be rewriting Raider from scratch (mid-series, mind you) just to save the humiliation of finishing the seemingly unpopular saga.
Maybe after MARDEK and TestAS3RPG are done, you should write this as a remake of Raider Zero.. but I truly hope you don't plan to modify--rewrite, rather--the current Raider series to make it more... popular. If you were to do so, it'd likely end up in the same place Cardek and 7H9H are now.
Ajbcool`s Avatar
Rating Orb E β Ajbcool 23 United States SanguinePhlegmatic 290C 148F
8 years ago | (0)
I'll just say that these ideas seem to make for a more exciting game than 'a long gauntlet of pixel-precise jumps that you're bouind to get some frustration out of.'
Avarion`s Avatar
Rating Orb Avarion 23 United Kingdom PhlegmaticSanguine 87C 9F
8 years ago | (0)
I think your ideas are good ones, and things like that should definately get more people interested.

You mention that you're unsure how to handle armor/weapons... Perhaps a Metroid styled way off doing it would work? (I.e. - Either gained from beating bosses and/or just hanging around in shrines etc.)
Cubemaster247`s Avatar
Rating Orb Cubemaster247 19 United States PhlegmaticMelancholic 57C 72F
8 years ago | (0)
I really like your idea of splitting up the levels into sections that can be travelled back to at a later time. Something about this appeals to me - I've always liked that one Super Mario Bros. game that you were talking about, and I've never known why! Hmm. Anyways, I also like your other ideas of gradually "expanding" the abilities of Arkus so that you can go back to previous areas and get to new areas. That game mechanic strongly reminds me of Castlevania: Symphony of the Night, where Alucard would gain things like the Double Jump, the Gravity Jump (a "super jump"), the ability to morph into the form of a wolf, a bat, and mist, and all sorts of other cool things.
Also, being a huge Raider fan, I'd like to say that I would definitely welcome these changes, as they would bring them closer, in my mind, to Raider Zero, which I thought was brilliant. This "more complex" system makes for a more fulfilling GAMEPLAY EXPERIENCE.
hlbeta`s Avatar
Rating Orb hlbeta 22 United States CholericMelancholic 144C 131F
8 years ago | (0)
So you're saying that you want to make a Mega Man game? With an antisocial, mildly nihilistic jerk of a blue dinosaur for a protagonist? I could support that.

Splitting up the game into shorter segments would be nice, the long levels and unforgiving save system of the recent episodes tended to turn into head-banging frustration so something more Mario-sized is welcome. I'd probably be more interested in one of the short production time RPGs you included in this year's plans but let's see what you can do with this idea.
DetroitLionsFan`s Avatar
Rating Orb DetroitLionsFan 16 United States PhlegmaticSanguine 188C 99F
8 years ago | (0)
What might be a good idea is to make a "Raider Lite" game or something with the RPG features and a few worlds, but later come back to it and make a "Raider Complete" version with the SMECOF elements and more advanced abilities and more bosses and oodles of other good things, but that would come.
Basically, you could release an upgraded Raider with all of the basic elements, but release a mega-Raider with the time consuming SMECOF elements (and other tough parts) after you have more time and proficiency with them.
Weople`s Avatar
Rating Orb Weople 16 United States CholericMelancholic 23C 10F
8 years ago | (0)
This sounds like an excellent plan. I was thinking of sort of the same thing power-ups wise and your Zelda system may bring about more fans. Although I liked the original game it was just so repetitive. Maybe add different guns that have a set amount of ammo and your pistol just has an infinite amount, like in Metal Slug. And instead of magic maybe artifacts that you can equip grant you special abilities instead? Just some of my thoughts.
Eleanor Rigby`s Avatar
Rating Orb E Eleanor Rigby 15 United States PhlegmaticCholeric 1184C 365F
8 years ago | (0)
Your new ideas sound really fun, and the direction you want to take Raider sounds really good, but, er, it sounds like your ideas will take loads of development time to implement, and isn't that one of the things that you are trying to avoid?
Havakazoo`s Avatar
Rating Orb Havakazoo 15 United Kingdom SanguineMelancholic 119C 118F
8 years ago | (1)
I would prefer it like it was now, really. The challenge was what made it so fun, and I still occasionally play level 2 to try and beat it on Expert mode (yes, I still haven't).

You're not going to take away the challenge, apparently, but I could easily complete three segments of level 2 on Hard mode. The reason is because one of the 'easier' things about Intermediate was that it was, effectively, split into three parts - the purple checkpoints. So you've already DONE what you said, effectively, in two of the modes, and doing the same thing for Hard mode would make it less challenging. By FAR. And a lot of the fun would be lost.

Another one of the great things about the game was that it was so, so simple. It took seven buttons to play (not including X and Z for dialogue), and there was no inventory, no time-consuming scrolling through menus, no multiple paths to go through (except a secret room or two which led straight back to the main path, or that great bit which you HAD to do all four rooms to advance - I really liked that) which I would go back and explore to find they're not much different, really, which annoys me. The hardness of it was down to the fact that it needed skill to play, which gives me one of my favourite things - gaining that skill.

Power-ups and items in the inventory would again make it far easier. And the idea of double-jumping in Raider is... - I don't think it would suit a game like Raider to have a double-jump skill. Maybe other skills would make it good, but PLEASE not double-jumping. I don't care if you implement anything else as long as you don't add double-jumping.

Maybe if you do another less hardcore platformer after Raider, I would support these ideas, but I would hate it if you turned Raider into an easier game. I really don't think me saying this will change much, but it would at least let you know that one person wants Raider to still have its difficulty, needing your timing to be perfect, a small margin for error and long levels with hard bosses.
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